Curse

go cubs · Nov 22, 2009, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbulger

it just needs to have a cutscene and teleport thing like a lot of other stuff. but ye i could see that being a serious problem in pugs.

Didnt even think of this, this would be perfect, im actually not too sure why its not in there now :0.

But yeah i completely agree with this. Woulda helped out a bunch...this is pretty much /win

MagmaRed · Nov 22, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Kicking someone is definitely a bad idea. Doesn't matter if it requires 1/2 the team to vote for it or 7/8. You would end up seeing groups of friends, guildies, or alliance members screwing people over.

Team needs 1-2 players for UW clear and takes PUGs. At end of clear, after Dhuum is killed, but before the bar has filled, they simply vote to kick the 2 people who helped them get there. Those 2 people worked to get there, but due to a crappy group will get no reward.

It has abuse written all over it. Doesn't matter how often it WOULD happen, we would end up seeing QQ posts all over Riverside within a week of it being added to the game.

DragonRogue · Nov 22, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Agreed that this is a very bad idea that just begs to be abused. Better to find a way to send all party members to Dhuum at the end of all 10 quests, whether by cutscene or something. Either that or make it so not all members have to be present to start the fight, just a majority of them. Say 5/8. Tho mallyx works this way, it doesnt take upwards of 2-3 hours to reach him.

PS. shouldnt this thread be moved to Sardalec?

Shayne Hawke · Nov 22, 2009, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by go cubs

Today, a PUG

I found your problem, OP. I suggest you find some guild or alliance buddies that you can hopefully rely on next time.

Ramei Arashi · Nov 22, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I found your problem, OP. I suggest you find some guild or alliance buddies that you can hopefully rely on next time.

I was on this team.

My guild and alliance members were mostly offline, the few who were on were not interested in UW or low level characters. First time I'm on a team that manages to complete all 10 quests and one jerk keeps us from taking on Dhuum. I hope Anet doesn't screw up FOW in the same way.

As for reporting, that's a laugh. They don't care about leaching. Only time they actually did something was when I reported a player for repeatedly asking me for real money for ectos.

I didn't know how to contact the development team about Dhuum so I sent an email to support, they said they sent in on to the development team and suggested posting on wiki forums to see what other players think.

At least I got 3 ectos, 1 white dye and 100 TOTS (you don't have to activate Dhuum to complete The Waiting Game). And I made 9k merching junk. So not a total loss.

Ramei Arashi

go cubs · Nov 22, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

I found your problem, OP. I suggest you find some guild or alliance buddies that you can hopefully rely on next time.

Not everyone has a guild/alliance that is willing to do uw, most of my guild was offline and i wanted to do uw...what else am i gonna do, as to the others saying that the vote is a bad idea, i agree, dont even bother with that anymore, just some sort of cutscene would do the trick to tele everyone into the doors.

jonnieboi05 · Nov 22, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Kicking someone is definitely a bad idea. Doesn't matter if it requires 1/2 the team to vote for it or 7/8. You would end up seeing groups of friends, guildies, or alliance members screwing people over.

Team needs 1-2 players for UW clear and takes PUGs. At end of clear, after Dhuum is killed, but before the bar has filled, they simply vote to kick the 2 people who helped them get there. Those 2 people worked to get there, but due to a crappy group will get no reward.

It has abuse written all over it. Doesn't matter how often it WOULD happen, we would end up seeing QQ posts all over Riverside within a week of it being added to the game.

This is exactly what I was talking about from the very beginning...

~LeNa~

go cubs · Nov 22, 2009, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Kicking someone is definitely a bad idea. Doesn't matter if it requires 1/2 the team to vote for it or 7/8. You would end up seeing groups of friends, guildies, or alliance members screwing people over.

Team needs 1-2 players for UW clear and takes PUGs. At end of clear, after Dhuum is killed, but before the bar has filled, they simply vote to kick the 2 people who helped them get there. Those 2 people worked to get there, but due to a crappy group will get no reward.

It has abuse written all over it. Doesn't matter how often it WOULD happen, we would end up seeing QQ posts all over Riverside within a week of it being added to the game.

That is why there would be a time period...After 15-20 minutes of someone being afk, you are able to kick that person, so it cant be someone just randomly kicking who they dont like

But honestly the cut scene would work better i think

Apok Omen · Nov 22, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Or just not allow solo tele until Dhuum is dead...

MagmaRed · Nov 22, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by go cubs

That is why there would be a time period...After 15-20 minutes of someone being afk, you are able to kick that person, so it cant be someone just randomly kicking who they dont like

But honestly the cut scene would work better i think

Ok, fine, but you still leave LOTS of room for abuse. The OPs situation was someone AFK. But not everyone who grief's does so on accident. Many people have fun by screwing other people over. So all I have to do is run in circles to keep myself from being kicked for having been afk. I can still prevent a team from fighting Dhuum, and not get kicked since I am not afk.

Ryssul Sylverhart · Nov 22, 2009, 08:56 PM // 20:56

How about instead of vote-kicking someone off after 15-20 minutes of AFK, the person just is returned to the outpost automatically, kind of like how you automatically disconnect from the game if you AFK for a certain amount of hours? I think THAT would be helpful in any situation. Yeah, it sucks if your mom called you or if your cat piddled on the floor or if you run out to the store, but it's not fair for the team to have to wait, and it's not fair for you to reap benefits that you did not sew.

I would love if there was some kind of automatic boot-back-to-outpost timer in the game: you get people leeching from everything to runs, to PvP battles, to PuGs and clears. And there wouldn't be any kind of...abuse from the players because they aren't the ones kicking or deciding who to kick based on whims, but just the neutral game itself.

Transporting cutscene would just be the easiest thing to add in this situation, though.

go cubs · Nov 22, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Ok, fine, but you still leave LOTS of room for abuse. The OPs situation was someone AFK. But not everyone who grief's does so on accident. Many people have fun by screwing other people over. So all I have to do is run in circles to keep myself from being kicked for having been afk. I can still prevent a team from fighting Dhuum, and not get kicked since I am not afk.

Thats true, but that will happen with or without the kick system anyway...They just need to change the whole entrance thing so this type of thing cant happen...I guess theres the always faithful dont use pugs though....

Anakita Snakecharm · Nov 22, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Or.. a function that allows a team to votekick after afk for 15-20min?

(Bolding mine)

I would be very much in favour of this with the condition mentioned.

I don't think people should just be able to randomly boot anyone from their team at any time-- that does beg for griefing. But I can't think of any legitimate reason that a person would need to be AFK for 15-20 minutes without notifying their teammates, right in the middle of a mission. If it's a true emergency, just exit the game window and go deal with real life-- it takes one mouse click, and people will know you're gone and won't waste time on a futile wait. If it's not an emergency, people need to be at least slightly courteous to others and respect their time, and give their attention to the mission for the duration.

The option doesn't even need to be available before the timer runs out. So you could keep yourself safe from vindictive kicking by... just not going on an extended AFK in the middle of a task! Which should just be normal play, unless the team all agrees on a break. You can't be punished unless your own action leaves you open to it, if it's made conditional on your own behaviour.

Quote:

How about instead of vote-kicking someone off after 15-20 minutes of AFK, the person just is returned to the outpost automatically, kind of like how you automatically disconnect from the game if you AFK for a certain amount of hours? I think THAT would be helpful in any situation. Yeah, it sucks if your mom called you or if your cat piddled on the floor or if you run out to the store, but it's not fair for the team to have to wait, and it's not fair for you to reap benefits that you did not sew.

I wouldn't agree with something so automated, though. It's perfectly legitimate to disappear for as long as you want to, as long as your team is OK with you going. Sometimes, for example, a team agrees to go take a snack break, and it would be kind of silly to kick someone automatically if they take thirty seconds too long making their sandwich, when no one in the actual team is bothered by it. Sometimes you're playing Hero and Hench... and they could care less if you go vacuum the living room in the middle of a mission, so there's no reason to curtail your time AFK there. Sometimes your team knows what's going on (for example, your internet connection is struggling) and is willing to wait for you.

There are just too many times when being auto-kicked would be annoying, and I don't see a sufficient outweighing benefit. I'd rather see it require a unanimous vote from all players, so there's actually an action needed to trigger it.

Quote:

So all I have to do is run in circles to keep myself from being kicked for having been afk. I can still prevent a team from fighting Dhuum, and not get kicked since I am not afk.

Well, sure. But I don't think this idea was intended to prevent any possible problem the game might ever have, or any way a player could possibly screw up fighting Dhuum. It's to prevent one specific issue, that could affect other missions too. It's not like the problem you mentioned would be solved by not implementing the feature, either... so I don't see why it would even be relevant to deciding for or against the feature. It's not really logical to avoid solving one problem because it wouldn't solve another, when that means the original problem would still exist too.

TheRaven · Nov 22, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryssul Sylverhart

How about instead of vote-kicking someone off after 15-20 minutes of AFK, the person just is returned to the outpost automatically, kind of like how you automatically disconnect from the game if you AFK for a certain amount of hours? I think THAT would be helpful in any situation. Yeah, it sucks if your mom called you or if your cat piddled on the floor or if you run out to the store, but it's not fair for the team to have to wait, and it's not fair for you to reap benefits that you did not sew.

I would love if there was some kind of automatic boot-back-to-outpost timer in the game: you get people leeching from everything to runs, to PvP battles, to PuGs and clears. And there wouldn't be any kind of...abuse from the players because they aren't the ones kicking or deciding who to kick based on whims, but just the neutral game itself.

Transporting cutscene would just be the easiest thing to add in this situation, though.

This idea has been debated before, but it is worse than a votekick option. Many many many teams take breaks, especially on long missions. It's not uncommon to have alliance teams doing Urgoz or UW runs that take several hours. If the mission is running longer than expected we'll agree to a 15 min break. I don't want to come back and find myself in TOA after the break.

Also, I commonly do FOW clears on the weekend by myself. I load up my heroes and head in. Since I'm alone, I'm not at the computer the whole time. These clears will sometimes take me all day to complete. I'll head in, clear to the tower of courage....go vacuum the house....head to the battlefield and complete Army of Darkness....fold laundry.....clear the forge....go to the grocery store......clear spider cave and burning forest.....cook dinner....then finish up in the evening.

Sorry, but I just don't see a way to abuse a votekick. Magma, Jonnie have you actually read the entire thread????? The OP is asking for a votekick option after a player has been afk. I don't understand how this can be abused? If you do, then explain. But please don't re-hash the same flawed argument that it would be used to kick non-friends or to grief a legitimate player. If that player isn't afk then it can't.

deo_janus · Nov 22, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

What about a timer, say 45 minutes-1 hour, that only applies for a human player group and after being AFK for such a time, the team can votekick on it?

frostkisses · Nov 22, 2009, 11:17 PM // 23:17

I dont know about you but theres no way after spending 3 HOURS in UW that I would want to wait another 45 to kick someone thats obviously an leeching fool. And what happens if he comes back on just to be an ass

and runs around a moment? The timer restarts... IMO this is just not reality. And it would also come with consequences due to the less mature

population of GW. I'm all for the cutscene. Something simple...maybe just a zoomed in shot of dhuum...make him laugh and call you forth. 30 seconds tops..Only thing is the cut scene would have to bring you inside the hall (doors close when party enters and Dhuum becomes hostile) and Frozenwind would have to give you the quest inside. Sooo Frozenwind is an "untouchable"(no harm would be caused to him) npc. Seems like a lot of crap to shove into one area, but really the only thing that would work.

Edit: Yes I know 45 min would be nothing if they went afk at the beginning, but you gotta think what if it was just before Dhuum

MagmaRed · Nov 23, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRaven

This idea has been debated before, but it is worse than a votekick option. Many many many teams take breaks, especially on long missions. It's not uncommon to have alliance teams doing Urgoz or UW runs that take several hours. If the mission is running longer than expected we'll agree to a 15 min break. I don't want to come back and find myself in TOA after the break.

Also, I commonly do FOW clears on the weekend by myself. I load up my heroes and head in. Since I'm alone, I'm not at the computer the whole time. These clears will sometimes take me all day to complete. I'll head in, clear to the tower of courage....go vacuum the house....head to the battlefield and complete Army of Darkness....fold laundry.....clear the forge....go to the grocery store......clear spider cave and burning forest.....cook dinner....then finish up in the evening.

Sorry, but I just don't see a way to abuse a votekick. Magma, Jonnie have you actually read the entire thread????? The OP is asking for a votekick option after a player has been afk. I don't understand how this can be abused? If you do, then explain. But please don't re-hash the same flawed argument that it would be used to kick non-friends or to grief a legitimate player. If that player isn't afk then it can't.

Of course I read the entire thing. And I stated how I think it could be abused. Afk can be done in 2 ways. First is someone actually leaves their computer and the person is not interacting with the game. Second is the person is just sitting there doing nothing for the quest/mission, but still chatting with friends or griefing the team. If it required someone to be afk to work, people would still abuse it. I could go afk for 14 minutes with a 15 minute timer, and move one step. Would still allow me to screw people over. The idea has merit for one thing. Griefing. And why this hasn't been moved to Sardelac astounds me.....lol

Since the 'only if someone is afk' option limits this to rare situations where you are with a PUG and people go afk, this means it won't be needed very often. If you actually find yourself on PUGs with people going afk frequently, you need to learn how to find PUGs.

go cubs · Nov 23, 2009, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Of course I read the entire thing. And I stated how I think it could be abused. Afk can be done in 2 ways. First is someone actually leaves their computer and the person is not interacting with the game. Second is the person is just sitting there doing nothing for the quest/mission, but still chatting with friends or griefing the team. If it required someone to be afk to work, people would still abuse it. I could go afk for 14 minutes with a 15 minute timer, and move one step.

The whole point is for people that are legitimately afk and i guess its true that it would be rarely used, thats why itd probably be better in the Dhuum situation just to have a cutscene so everyone gets in there somehow.

chiuna · Nov 23, 2009, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Or just not allow solo tele until Dhuum is dead...

After he's dead, the group is shut into the room where he is. You can't go back to the rest of the UW to get drops/quest rewards anymore.

Also, group tele wouldn't teleport the afker close enough to start the quest anyway, so it would not help this particular issue.

knobby · Dec 28, 2009, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

This is exactly what I was talking about from the very beginning...

~LeNa~

I agree with both of you, a kicking feature would be abused by immature people and lets face it, guildwars is played by more than half of immature people.
Tele would be the only answer!